Sunday, June 7, 2009

What's in a language?

On June 28th, Saint Nicholas in Wilkes-Barre will have a bi-lingual Mass (English and Spanish) as they welcome their new Hispanic parishioners.

The new parishioners are coming to St. Nicholas as their current parish Holy Rosary is closing. They will bring the Our Lady of Guadalupe statue with them from the closing church.

That's nice.

But my question is this, how open would Saint Nick's be to having the Latin Mass?

If they can have a bi-lingual Mass, which must be followed by a Mass in Spanish like they did at Holy Rosary, why not Latin?

Go on, say it. "But Traddy, they speak Spanish. That's their language."

True says I.

But Latin is the language of the Church.

Why must we be sensitive to the Spanish, but not sensitive to our own traditions?

Feel free to chime in.


Anonymous said...

Well yeah the problem isn't why they're doing spanish now too, it's why they weren't doing Latin in the first place. Which is your point I know lol. Ah just throw in the towel already and become a Protestant! Just kidding...

I guess it's good I wasn't (clearly) raised as strictly Catholic as you must have been because half the things on here you are bothered by, I'm not. Lol. I'm definitely all for Catholics and their magic but am clueless as to all the strict traditional things, which probably proves your point even more. However some things do raise my female priests would be annoying, and I like the more old-fashioned music. etc. than the stupid random guitar jams n' shit that I sometimes see. And all that kind of rock christian crap that seems to come with the Protestant ones...etc...I say I like it the traditional ol' Catholic way but I don't even know half the traditions, clearly! lol.

And that was just a random spurt of typing.

The Rockin' Traddy said...

I should teach a Trad 101 course here.

U wanna be the first pupil?

Anonymous said...

I would! At least I'd know more about my own religion then, lol. We just learned the basics in our CCD classes. Or "religious ed" or whatever it was called. Although the act of contrition I always say is an older school version, not the newest version they do in my church now. So...yay! Or something.

Oh and you know what sucks? I can't even take communion anymore. Like, really, I can't. I found out 2 years ago that stupid "gluten" is what was making me sick all the time, and the communion wafers have that in it! Ew. So I do the blood/wine but that's it. And I have to make sure it's not wine that the priest crumbled the host into. Kind of sucks, I feel awkward standing in line and bypassing the Eucharistic minister with the communion to go straight to the one with the wine. :/ But it's something about a Catholic tradition/rule, they HAVE to make the communion wafers that way.

I've joked that it must mean I'm a demon or something, if the body of Christ will literally make me sick! Ha... but actually it sucks.

and that was another random ramble, but as a Catholic I thought you might appreciate it.

- L

Anonymous said...

well traddy, I do agree with you. I am actually very upset with the fact they are coming to St. Nick's.

They should of let Holy Rosary stay open and they could have their own church.

it feels like we are being forced fed to accept them, and having to allow them to carry their statue into the church and to have a seperate spanish mass just for them every sunday. I say the hell with that.

if they want to belong, first be legal, second assimilate with the group, not us having to have seperate things for them.

this really has many people at St Nick's fired up.

I probably will end up leaving that church for a differnt one.


The Rockin' Traddy said...

L, I'm gonna find out about that for you. I know they have "gluten free" hosts, but I dunno if they are really acceptable.

I don't mind them as much, as I do the leap to assimilate to them, like you said. But that being said, how do you feel about the Mass as it is over at Saint Nick's? Do you think it should be more Catholic? Or is it fine as it is?

Getting back to the whole language thing, if we didn't stop Mass in Latin, this wouldn't be a problem today...

Anonymous said...

Hispanics will restore orthodox, Traditional Catholicism to this nation, the truly devout ones.

Anonymous said...

Lol I almost called you by your name for some reason. Rockin' Traddy...that would be really nice if you somehow found a gluten free communion option, and I'm actually touched you offered *tear* I remember back my mom (lol) did some research on it as she is wont to do. And apparently some nuns/sisters somewhere did offer something...but it still had a teensy teensy bit of gluten in it, because again, something about the unleavened bread or some religous regulation made it HAVE to have that in there. But unfortunately with a gluten intolerance, having a teensy amount is just as bad as having a normal amount. Grr...

- L

Christian said...

This may sound a bit tiresome, but really Carol? Should we be turning them away? Is this what our faith is reduced to? I pray with my kind and you with yours? The Bishop made a decision to close the church where they are at. They could individually as families attend whatever parish they like, but just like us -- have a devotion to the cultural and spiritual heritage they have brought with them. And yes, some of them speak marginal english, if any at all. Do we turn them away? Say -- jouin your brethren at the Pentecostal church? Or should we help to provide a priest who can hear their confessions in a language they presently understand? They have a right to receive the grace of God through the sacraments just as you or I do.

Carol, I have plenty of faults -- a truckload of sin. But I respectfully suggest you take another look at your statements to see that the Church is not denying your heritage, your sacraments, your faith -- only trying to welcome those of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Traddy -- I am no 'lefty' and long for the return to an appreciation for the Mystery of our faith as beautifully expressed in Prayers, Devotions, Rituals, and Rites that have been cast aside these last 40 years. However, often times your blog saddens me because it doesn't consistently represent the supreme Joy of being fully and authentically Catholic in the Traditional Latin Rite. Instead a sense of cynicism creeps in, and it is this sense of utter rejection of other Catholic Spiritualities that does a dis-service to attracting curious newcomers to the Wonder of the TLM. I realize that is your 'schtick' but I hesitate to refer sympathetic Novos Ordo folks here. The Cynicism breeds a climate of Frankly UN-Christian exchange wherein there is this Protestant Standard of 'I will define who is Catholic, and Who is Worthy of Coming into MY Parish to receive the Body and Blood of Christ.'

I enjoy your Blog, but wish the conversation was one that promoted the TLM through engagement rather than being a forum for like minded Catholics to sit back with Smug self satisfaction about those 'poor helpless boobs' attending the average Novus Ordo.

Pax Christi

Christian said...

To the main point of the post though, I agree that life would be better if we all had learned Latin and used it at Mass. The Papal Mass in 2008 at Washing Nationals Stadium really bothered me for this reason. By Having different parts of the Mass said in different languages only served to guarantee that Most people at the Mass could not understand what was being said and taking place. It DISRUPTED the entrance in to the Mystery and the appreciation for the Church Triumphant and Church Militant United in prayer.

Liturgy in the language of the people from the beginning (and I mean from the time of SS. Cyril and Methodius) was meant for the purpose of Catechization and Mission. NOT as a celebration of the 'diversity' (Lord I despise that word) of ourselves.

The Rockin' Traddy said...


Yes, I am a cynic. And that is how I deal with the silliness I see all around me.

You mention that you feel my blog can be "un-Christian" at times.

The thing I always have difficulty with is that people mis-characterize the truth as "un-Christian". I will always tell the truth, and if I, in the light of Traditional Catholicism sees something not right, I will tell the readers of this blog. That is what I do. To do anything less is a disservice not only to my readers, but to Holy Mother Church, who is under attack daily from many different factions inside the Church.

Case in point, your comments on the party in the rectory during Adoration on Maundy Thursday. Should they be partying as our Lord prepares to be turned over to his enemies? Shouldn't they be kneeling in Adoration, spending time with him before he's crucified for them? Should we sit idly by? I don't think so.

There are lessons to be learned all around us, and I will take what you have said and think on it.

Thanks for the candor.

Christian said...

I know, it's your blog and it can certainly serve many purposes, and I'm ok with that. Don't misunderstand me to suggest that abuses should not be pointed out -- it's just the manner.

And Carol, please understand I read your comments in the light of the None Reading in the Liturgy of the hours today. 1 Cor 12:24-26

"God has arranged the body and that there may not be disagreements inside the body, but that each part may be equally concerned for all the others. If one part is hurt, all parts are hurt with it. If one part is given special honor, all parts enjoy it."


Anonymous said...

spare me PAX. It was like a freakin circus when they paraded across the bridge, in the costumes and the lowrider cars with the boom boxes blasting. It was ugly to say the least. And why should the entire mass schedule change, just to accomedate this group with their spanish mass? Now I and others in the majority have been incovienced. It's total BS.